Author Topic: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread  (Read 722 times)

mjolnir

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The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« on: July 02, 2016, 04:20:10 AM »
I want this settled for my own sanity, and I need the underground-underground's assistance. I am leaning toward a stance on this topic, but I'm not truly decided.

Is slam deathcore?
Is there good deathcore, and if so, is that good deathcore considered slam?
Are there differences between deathcore and slam that separate them into two different genres?
Should either be considered or be stricken from the book as heinous poseur metal?
Did Slam evolve from deathcore?

The general consensus around the web is that Devourment really honed slamming guitar by itself as a feature carrying its own genre.

Right away, I'm discarding this as deathcore. It's very slammy, and for the a significant part it's tolerable, but to me it sounds like they just perfected the deathcore sound. This does not ring of death metal to me.

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Then we have this:

Which I feel is some of the best music ever fucking made.
This does not have the same feel to me as the above Devourment. This feels to me much more like brutal death and I don't get that "augh, tricked into deathcore" sensation out if it.

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Here, we have "This is ok, but it's definitely deathcore." Given that it is slam. It sounds to me like goregrind with repeated palm muted breakdowns. It is slammy, it is not at all bad.

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Let's look at the difference in deathcore breakdowns and slam breakdowns:


Core guitars, no doubt.
Core vocals, no doubt.
Pay attention to the pacing of the breakdown, no groove, chopped, stop-motion timing. Not to mention that aggravatingly stupid signature bass line with strings tuned so low that they don't actually form a note.

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Decapitated. Not slam, but the breakdowns aren't low tuned garbage fagtrocities. Are these more common to slam than the Q string thumping?

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Same. This is obviously slam, but it cannot be denied that it is brutal death metal and not core.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 04:23:18 AM by mjolnir »

Knightfall

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2016, 12:42:56 AM »
Based on your analysis and my, admittedly limited, experience with slam, it seems to me like slam is what deathcore is trying to be.

I do agree that slam is a form of brutal death metal, not deathcore, but it achieves that by using a lot of the same things as deathcore, just to greater success.

Also I really fucking enjoyed that Insidious Decrepancy album, so there's that.

Cappa

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2016, 06:29:53 AM »
I'm trying to think of ways to keep my answer to this constructive while allowing myself to be as critical as I want to be.

One thing I will say is that it is very difficult to trace slam back to a distinct origin within brutal death metal, and that the genre just sort of happened after a certain point. Devourment is a good example of a band that you can consider slam. Before it went off to be its own subgenre, there were bucketloads of bands doing stuff that nowadays can be arguably called slam, but they were simply brutal death metal bands... this whole slam thing only crept out of the woodwork and became an actual thing circa 2009 or so, although you can find people who can describe little underground pockets of it going as far back as 2001. When I finally took notice and asked around about what it was and heard it called slam, it was a band playing at an underground death metal show in a garage in Akron, Ohio, and the band was well received- slam bands tend to be well received in brutal death metal, and the two subgenres are currently working parallel and closely related to each other.

 Deathcore, if I can lay into it for a second, are a bunch of Hot Topic metalcore kids who realized what they were listening to in high school was too gay and tried to make it sound harder to no avail. Nothing pisses me the fuck off more than the screamo to growling vocal style; it sounds like an autist who needs to have a moment. Some other things about deathcore that I haven't been able to get past:

-The drums are habitually set too high in the mix, so I can't discern what little the guitarists are actually trying to play, and that's a serious fucking problem coming from someone who listens to grind and noise punk.

-The post production is compression on top of compression on top of compression. From an audio technician's standpoint, once you take the dynamic range out of literally everything and make it super clean, you're getting an overall sound that isn't much more complex than MIDI... that's an awful lot of post production just to wind up sounding like a guitar pro 6 sample.

-The breakdowns. I get it. It's hard. So is my dick from time to time.

Here are all of those points in a nutshell:



You can bleach an asshole, but it's still meant to be a little brown.

I can try to be more constructive if you want from here on out.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 06:38:54 AM by Cappa »

Cappa

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2016, 06:41:31 AM »
Anyway, here's slam as I know it:



and I'll jack this from the other sub:

I feel that slam actually does deserve the name death metal, as an official category subgenre. Even if is obviously the result of deathcore somewhere in its timeline actually realizing what it was that made them so un-metal and fixing the problem.

This, but in my opinion it came from taking grind-and-groove-type writing to the extreme in both directions, so you get hyper grinds and doom-tempoed grooves, and by grooves I'm not talking about breakdowns... that would make it death core.

Slam is absolutely in the death metal camp.

Cappa

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2016, 06:51:07 AM »
I've also always noticed a general sense of humor to slam:



In a live setting, this has always translated into the crowd getting super sloppy drunk, laughing at bathroom jokes cracked between songs, dancing around like Ricky Ricardo and passing some weed around. The general antics and debauchery of a slam band and its audience during a set are a stark contrast to a super serious deathcore frontman trying to affirm that the breakdown coming up is the hardest one ever, and their audience subsequently taking themselves too seriously.

Deathcore is too serious to crack a joke at itself.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 06:58:00 AM by Cappa »

Mog

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2016, 08:14:27 PM »
Not that I've seen a lot of deathcore (Whitechapel, are they deathcore? I saw them play with Dying Fetus at some point) but they all seem to have those stupid looking spacers in their ears.

mjolnir

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2016, 12:10:59 AM »
Excellent feedback gentlemen. You have articulated my thoughts in a way that I could not and I agree with the direction.

mjolnir

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2016, 12:16:12 AM »

doom-tempoed grooves, and by grooves I'm not talking about breakdowns

THERE. THAT hit it on the head. The breakdowns aren't the same because slam breakdowns aren't break downs, they're down tempo heavy riffing, and they are pacing on a groove instead of yelling "OPEN UP THE PIT WE ARE SO HARD CAUSE WE CAN BLOW OUR SPEAKERS OUT AT -80 DECIBELS AND WE THINK THAT SOUNDS GOOD FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER". Spot on about the trying to be taken seriously versus making fun of themselves observation too. That was always the probably that metalcore had, and it didn't change with deathcore, if anything it got worse.

mjolnir

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2016, 12:26:33 AM »
I've also always noticed a general sense of humor to slam:



In a live setting, this has always translated into the crowd getting super sloppy drunk, laughing at bathroom jokes cracked between songs, dancing around like Ricky Ricardo and passing some weed around. The general antics and debauchery of a slam band and its audience during a set are a stark contrast to a super serious deathcore frontman trying to affirm that the breakdown coming up is the hardest one ever, and their audience subsequently taking themselves too seriously.

Deathcore is too serious to crack a joke at itself.

You're totally right, I mean look at Skinless. The point is to see who can be so grotesque that grotesque loses its meaning and becomes just funny.

mjolnir

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2016, 12:27:56 AM »
Based on your analysis and my, admittedly limited, experience with slam, it seems to me like slam is what deathcore is trying to be.

I do agree that slam is a form of brutal death metal, not deathcore, but it achieves that by using a lot of the same things as deathcore, just to greater success.

Also I really fucking enjoyed that Insidious Decrepancy album, so there's that.

My thoughts exactly. Insidious Decrepancy is a guy from my neighborhood and his brother. He's also the one man band of Viral Load.

mjolnir

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2016, 12:34:11 AM »
Necrophagia have been doing it since the 80's.


Cappa

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Re: The Slam vs. Deathcore analysis thread
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2016, 02:22:54 AM »
trying to be taken seriously versus making fun of themselves observation too. That was always the problem that metalcore had, and it didn't change with deathcore, if anything it got worse.



By the way, check out Goemagot:






Another side note that I'll make is that at this point in time, the line is very blurred between slam and brutal death metal, but I don't mind when people call a band either/or. I'd take some offense if someone mistook something I listen to as deathcore, though.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 02:25:01 AM by Cappa »